Boo to the Boy Scouts
January 10, 2006: It drives me crazy that in 2006, the Boy Scouts still will not allow openly gay men to serve as scout leaders. That means that if my son joined the boy scouts (which I couldn’t imagine him doing, but peer pressure leads kids to do crazier things than that) I couldn’t participate in my own son’s troop! That’s craziness!
They don’t allow gay Scouts, either. Their policies teach children that gay men are to be hated and feared. Why don’t they just call themselves the Nazi Youth Camp and be done with it?
In Berkeley, CA, the city is trying to place restrictions on the Scouts due to the group’s discriminatory practices. But they’re facing opposition:
The city of Berkeley, which was celebrated in the 1960s as the home of the Free Speech Movement, now finds itself accused of violating the First Amendment rights of a group of young sailors connected to the Boy Scouts of America.
Citing a violation of its nondiscrimination policy, the City Council revoked the free berthing the Berkeley Sea Scouts received for six decades. The city targeted the group because the Boy Scouts bar atheist and gay members.
The council’s actions will be tested Tuesday during oral arguments before the California Supreme Court in a case that challenges the legality of removing or withholding public subsidies from groups whose ideals run counter to the government’s. Both sides maintain legal precedent is on their side.
City officials told the Sea Scouts in 1998 that the group could retain its berthing subsidy, valued at about $500 monthly, if it either broke from the Boy Scouts or disavowed the policy against gays and atheists.
The Sea Scouts contend the group was unfairly singled out because the city did not make the same demands on the two other nonprofits receiving the subsidized berthing privileges at the city-owned Berkeley Marina, the Cal Sailing Club and the Berkeley Yacht Club.
The Sea Scouts, which teaches sailing, carpentry and plumbing, never disavowed the membership policy and said it wouldn’t break from the Boy Scouts. Instead, it adopted a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, promising not to ask members or leaders whether they were gay or believed in God.
I suppose that as a public group, the Boy Scouts can happily discriminate against whomever the choose. But more good people need to stand up against them using public accommodations for their indoctrination programs. You can read the whole story at 365Gay.com.
February 8th, 2006 at 11:53 pm
You are absolutly right… the BSA is diffenately a ‘Nazi Youth’ organization.
We all also know that Berkeley, CA is the heart of our country’s morality.
Shame on all the thousands of BSA leaders helping our young men grow-up with morals and values. Let’s make sure we focus all of our negetive energy to teardown the Boy Scouts of America; darn them and their ‘do a good turn daily’ philosophy. If I were you I certainly would not encourage my son to get involved in such an evil, narrow minded organization… GOOD FOR YOU!
Yours in Scouting,
Andrew Chalmers
Proud Scouter and father of an awesome Scout
February 9th, 2006 at 7:13 am
I appreciate your sarcasm. I like sarcasm. But why do you think that not allowing gay men to be Scout leaders, or gay boys to be Scouts is a good moral value?
If the Scouts banned African Americans or people with disabilities, would you still be so quick to defend them with your sharp wit?
Or is it just gay kids and adults we should teach our youth to shun and discriminate against?
February 26th, 2006 at 6:29 am
Scouting is about accepting people they way they are, and learning from each other, creating tolerance and understanding. Unfortunately, once children grow up, these rules are quickly forgotten, and many so-called adult scouts are not better than the average citizen. BSA is worldwide known to be backward on several issues, and heavily influenced by mormon philosophy, instead of promoting the religious and cultural variety scouting stands for. For this reason they don’t allow their members to participate in the World Moot (Jamboree for Rovers) either, because they might get bad influences from other scouts!.
But why don’t simply set up an alternative scout movement? In Europe, many countries have more than one scout organisation, and are recognised as members of the international association. In the Netherlands, the scout organisation even has a special working group on gay scouts!
Or, and that might even be your best option: leave the country, and find a more tolerable place to live!
February 26th, 2006 at 6:45 am
As you can see, not all the scouts are like this!
Description
The Gay Scouts of Peru Division Rover/Venture/Pioneer/Companion/Explorer Teams is for Rover Scouts, Venture Scouts, Pioneers, Companions, Explorers and other Boy Scouts and young people who want to become teamers between 13 and 20 years old. Young people with disabilities and tolerant straight young people are welcome. Legal authorization of parents and guardians to attend activities are required. Medical and psychological permissions are required for members with disabilities to attend activities.
Be Prepared in the Gay Pride !!!
March 4th, 2006 at 8:26 pm
Hey all,
I just wanted to clarify a few things that I believe you don’t understand. The problem here is that the Boy Scout movement is based on duty to God, Country and Self: also the promise to keep yourself phisically strong, mentally awake and MORALLY STRAIGHT. In my opinion and according to my Christian beliefs, homosexuality does not fit into the Morally straight category. people who choose this lifestyle( and I do believe that it is a chosen not inherited preference) can’t be in line with the Scout Oath or Laws. Also, I would just like to add that there are homosexuals that would make great Scout leaders, just as there are many straight leaders right now that probably shouldn’t be in Boy Scouting.
The Boy Scouts would just as eagerly help a gay or lesbian old person across the street as a straight one……..;) There is a difference between associating with a lifestyle and being identified with and supporting it.
Thanks for listening, Ken
March 4th, 2006 at 8:49 pm
Ken,
If the Boy Scouts want to discrimate based on their beliefs as a religious organization, then they shouldn’t have access to public facilities.
As far as your believing that homosexuality is a “chosen preference,” you can believe whatever you want to. The entirety of modern scientific and psychiatric thinking sees things differently, but, hey, I guess that’s why they call it “faith.”
My belief system tells me that the Boy Scout’s anti-gay policies are the OPPOSITE of being “morally straight,” because I believe discrmination is always IMMORAL. But you are certainly entitled to believe differently, Ken.
March 4th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
Scott,
I didn’t say that the Boy Scouts are a religious organization. I said they pledge a duty to God, their own God(Christian, Allah, Buddah ). Even if you don’t believe in a higher power and you want to be a Scout you could lie and say you do, the Scouts don’t ask you to prove your belief , but then you have not lived up to the point of the scout law that tells you to be Trustworthy. I said that in MY opinion and Christian values a person can’t be morally straight and be gay, just like in MY opinion a thief or lawyer..;) can’t.
The Boy Scouts are not anti gay. They just don’t support or want to be identified with the lifestyle, as I don’t. I have gay co-workers that I am friendly with but I wouldn’t go with them to a gay function BUT I would stop and help them if they were hurt or in need.
As a matter of fact, after the Hurricanes last year , the Boy Scouts opened up all their camps for Hurrricane relief. They didn’t BAN homosexuals from using the facilities or obtaining any help they offered. Scout troops all over the country have helped raising funds for these people regardless of sexual or religious (or lack there of) preference.
Have a nice day, Ken
March 28th, 2006 at 6:45 am
What I remember (fondly) about scouting (Brownies, which were younger Girl Scouts, in my case):
I remember Moms and Dads taking time out of their busy schedules to be Troop Leaders, or make guest appearances to lead a particular project or activity. We didn’t have “professional” troop leaders, we had parents who volunteered their time. I recall getting together with the troop to work on projects, often silly crafts simply designed to consume the time allotted, but sometimes learning projects designed to teach. We did lots of “outdoorsy” things, like hiking and swimming, or campfire safety. We were taught “morals”, but not quite overtly, more just “be good”. We engaged in charitable actions like visiting local senior centers, or soup kitchens. I thought being a scout meant helping others and doing no harm, whether harm to others or harm to our environment.
What I don’t remember about scouting:
Nobody asked me what church I went to. Nobody admonished me whether I went to church or not (I guess that was left up to my parents). Nobody asked me anything about sex or dating. Few people seemed to know, and nobody seemed to care, if other kids parents were married, single, or divorced. Teasing was not tolerated during troop events. Teasing of any sort was not part of being a good scout. Of course, outside the events all bets were off, but when we misbehaved, we knew our troop leaders wouldn’t approve. We didn’t actually know if anybody was gay either (early 80’s). We knew some parents liked and disliked other parents, but as long as nobody got in the way of planning the next outing, us kids sure didn’t care. Nobody read bibles, or prayed. The most religious thing was did was pledge (the flag pledge of allegiance and the little promise thing we had to memorize and recite. They were *so* not the big deal it is now, when we pledged God, we thought it didn’t matter which God, but now I can see it would be best to drop it for the non-believers.
Why I bring this up:
Yes, this is only one data point. And I don’t have any kids. But if I do, or when I’m talking to friends and relatives with kids about possible “extracurricular” activities, I would love if their kids could have a fun scouting experience like mine was. I’m sure “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” is one of the dumbest ideas for “adult” military troops, but when it comes to scouts, especially the younger groups, I’m not so sure that it’s nearly as stupid. Perhaps a better policy (gotta make it shorter and catchier, but here goes) would be…
1) Go ahead and ask… scouts should be curious
2) Go ahead and tell… scouts should always tell the truth
3) But that should be the end of the discussion… scouting is not family ed or sex ed.
I want kids to enjoy scouting. I don’t think scouting would have been any fun if it were hideously morphed into Sunday school, or some political rally. If there is a “gay” discussion in scouting, it should be…
Kid 1: Your “dads” dropped you off? Like, you have two?
Kid 2: Yep.
Kid 1: Huh. Cool. So, like, help me carry this project crap over to the table, ok?
Kid 2: Sure!
OR
Parent: I heard you’re gay.
Troop Leader: Yep.
Parent: So, what are your activities planned for this year?
Troop Leader: Campfire Safety, Selling Cookies, Swim Party, Selling More Cookies, Orienteering Lesson and Hike, Cookies…
Parent: Huh. Cool. Need help with that hike? I can do a compass reading lesson.
Troop Leader: Great!
If the officials in the scout hierarchy can’t get their heads out of (um… er… good scout wouldn’t finish that sentence)… well if they won’t let gay folks be the non-issue that they should be, I like the other poster’s idea to start another scouting organization. The whole idea behind banning the scouts from public spaces is to punish the hierarchy for being stupid. Unfortunately, it’s the kids who get hurt. Just like some peopel suggest “if you want to ban gay foster parenting, then you take on all the unadopted little kids”, I suppose the idea “if you want to ban the anti-gay scouts, then you create the everybody-welcome scouts” applies here. But obviously we shouldn’t have to, they should wise up. Breaks my heart to think of kids (and adults) missing out on innocent fun, and worse, to see kids learning that it’s OK to exclude people who are different from us. That’s not a very good scouting thing to do.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
What a great comment, Mary! You are 100% spot on!
April 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
Ok…before anyone says anything…i have chosen to keep my name anonymus because i am a…well, for simplicity’s sake…a gay scout leader. i recently just earned the eagle scout award…just before time ran out…and i would rather not lose all the time and devotion that i put into that work. anyway here is my view…as far as whether i am out…i am to those who ask…but i don’t flaunt it. i believe that it is wrong to discriminate in any form or fashion…and someone up there already made a good point about discrimination of other minorities…those of whom it has been deemed socially inappropriate to discriminate against; that is my anti-morally straight. I also believe that in order to fully be an organization that is fighting against moral improprieties that the scouts must observe the morals of all the religions…the chief rule being what is commonly referred to as “The Golden Rule”. However, i can see where the Scouts are coming from… they are merely trying to protect their members. But, i also believe that, with the Youth Protection Training that i took…so i know that there are already safe-guards in place(two-deep leadership, separation of men, women, and boys, etc.)…the scouts must merely adopt policies similar to those of the Girl Scouts…basically, any sort of “sexual display” is strictly prohibited. Furthermore, if, in the name of the protection of the boys, we are going to purge all gay men & boys from the organization, we should not just limit it to homosexuals but remove the women as well…after all, women can be rapists as well. If this organization is to run itself off of the morals expressed by the Christian religion, then…once again like what has been previously said…the organization should actually just come out and say it…say that we are an organization of prudish and, might i add, fundamentalist Christians and in so doing lose all of our affliations and our public rights.
October 17th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
I know this is dated, but it is intended for those who stunble across the page as I have. First, let’s talk bigotry. The BSA is not a group of biggots. If you want to see biggotry, look at what the gays right here on the page are saying. Words like “NAZI” and all of that “hatred” that they apparently feel themselves but blame Scouts for.
You gay people have to understand something here. You are your own worst enemies. When I meet someone, I don’t shake their hand and say “Hi! I’m Mario and I’m a hetrosexual,” so why do gays feel compelled to do this? “Hi, I’m Joe and I’m gay!” Joe! We don’t care that you are gay but when you tell us that you are, you may as well be waving your weenie in our faces and this is what we don’t like or appreciate.
The Dale vs BSA lawsuit that started all of this resulted from Mr Dale’s desire to TEACH THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE to the scouts under his leadership. This is the “dirty little secret” that never seems to get out when this story is discussed. Regardless of what you may think, Scout Leaders aren’t teaching hetrosexual lifestyles to anyone nor should they be.
Before you criticize anyone else, look at yourselves in the mirror. Criticizing fundamentalist Christians won’t stop the problem. The Christian is interested in your eternal salvation and tells you what God says. You either accept it or reject it. Your choice and your business. You can argue with God in the afterlife, but don’t badmouth the people who are making an effort to keep you from going to hell. You should thank them for being concerned about your soul, but you never seem to look at it from that viewpoint, do you?
Another thing. Why is it such a problem that the BSA does not want to accept “OPENLY” gay leaders and youth? They accept everyone, but when you flaunt yourself, that benefits no one. I once heard an excellent interview. Something relating to GAYS happened and a woman who identified herself as a teacher was “worried about the gay kids in her class.”
The interviewer said that this was the problem. That the kids should not be flaunting their lifestyle, and the woman very angrily yelled “They’re not flaunting their lifestyle” to which the question was posed “Then how do you know that they’re gay?” This hit the issue right on the head. Keep your gayness to yourself, and I’ll keep my non-gayness to myself, and we can all get along just fine.
November 27th, 2006 at 2:30 am
Hello people………
Who cares if someone is gay or not, as long as the person is there for the right reasons, does it really matter? Let me tell you a quick story. PLEASE READ!
I ( until recently ) was married to an Eagle Scout/ District Executive who I had admired and looked up to since I was fourteen years old. The boy scouts as we know have the highest morals and values! Turned out, my husband had been put in jail once in college for hitting a woman at a party. He was verbally and physically abusive toward me, drank all the time, and the marriage ended when I found out he was having an affair with a Scout voulunteer the entire time we were married. Did I mention we were trying to get pregnant? When I left him and the cat was out of the bag, he decided to manipulate me in the ultimate way, he waited until I was coming to our house to get some things, and he shot himself in the head so I would find him. He survived. A month later I suffered a stroke. The homewrecker/scout volunteer/pta parent is still out there working with our children in the BSA. Isn’t that nice?
The moral of the story? It doesn’t take a homosexual to corrupt our kids in the boy scouts. Why don’t we take a good hard look at the heterosexuals who are hanging out? Some of them might not be cream of the crop.
Feel free to email me. I would love to discuss! missmickeylou@yahoo.com